would be real important to get this tested and all issues figured out before 1.7 releases... theres a lot of great things in the tagset and a few things that maybe could be helped out by engine adjustments...
96 monster limit 400 units per mesh with what you have so far a big battle could easily jump way over those... especially with the monster change for the different marching sequences...
hopefully the next build of 1.7 will have the graphic limits gone and we can see full rendering goodness online...
great work carlino keep it up...
if one does not learn from the failings of the past they are likely to suffer its return.
thanks Point, yeah, it's a bummer the 400 units at the same time limit
but I guess it's not possible to change that...I think the guys at magma told me before it was impossible, can't recall when, but I do understand
regarding the lag in big melee fights with high res units, myrd told me it's being solved for the next 1.7 build I'm eagerly awaiting that!!! hehe
still we need to get online and test multiplayer with high res units once the lag gets solved in the next build.
So far every conceivable reason for NOT upping the limit has been squashed by logic - but myrd is still tentative about even touching it. Pity.
Some loser- the guy who got magma their rights to work on the code in the first place - even agrees with me. It's insane not to up the limit. The reasons for outweigh the reasons against.
The patches already made stuff incompatible with previous versions - such as films not working - and nobody seemed to care then. But all of a sudden when some breakthrough shit is endorsed by one of the most knowledgable myth guys I know (SL) apparently the film incompatibility thing is a huge issue.
If people want to watch their old films, theyll keep an older version of the application. (Like we ALL did after patching from 1.3 or 1.4)
I even had SL personally contact Myrd to explain to him WHY its a good idea to raise the mons limit, even if only marginally higher than before. Apparently myrd ignored it or doesnt care that SL (who he owes his ability to work on the code to) himself endorses it.
Oh well, it seems life is full of "could-have-been"'s
I guess ill take some small consolation with PROJ into MONS.
First, SL (great guy though he is, no disrespect intended) did not get magma the right to work on the code. He did arrange NDAs for 3 developers to work on Myth III's code, NDAs which expired after a year. Mythdev under Blades claimed those dev rights after throwing SL out of the group, but in reality they had (as a group) no right to anything. Never were there any rights granted by Take 2 to anyone to work on Myth 2. The code fell off a bus, landed in Blades's lap, who passed it to me, who brought it to Magma.
Ok, all that aside, when 1.4 broke film compatibility with 1.3 people did care. We got a lot of protests, and after a lot of work we made sure that 1.4.1 could again play 1.3 films. Afaik 1.6 and 1.7 can still play 1.3 films, plus films from 1.5 onwards. We can't support 1.4.x films as we don't have the sourcecode for those versions.
You won't get anywhere by denigrating Myrd in a public forum. He's put 90% of the work into this latest release on his own, and after seeing the results of his efforts over the last few years I have the utmost respect for his judgement. If he says that breaching the 400 unit limit is dangerous or impossible then believe me, he'll have good reasons. Perhaps its feasible but he just doesn't have the time or energy to make the change - the Myth codebase can be very difficult to work with and hell, he's doing all this for nothing in his spare time, so please don't yell at him if he doesn't implement every mapmaker's pipe dreams.
I wasnt degrading him, i was working off the info I had thought to be true.
I appreciate you setting the record straight but the info I got was secondhand and thusly hearsay - but since it was the ONLY info on the subject told by someone with conviction about it - i believed it. Oops.
Anyways, old films do not work - at least for me. There are a lot of early films that go OOS the moment it starts.
Yelling at myrd? Oh come on. Drop the hostility. Im not berating myrd for not having the time to dedicate to an ambitious engine change - if he has real life to worry about more power to him - so please don't continue thinking that's my perogative. How could I NOT respect myrd? I have the utmost gratitude and enthusiasm for all the stuff he's done.
Does that mean that it's impossible to up the limit? Of course not. Not having enough time is different than something being impossible - it most certainly isn't.
Also - the code fell off a bus? Well, that's good to know. So nobody has any right to it? (i tried to not directly say those words since theyre dangerous, but since you said it outright in your post no sense thinking its secret anymore).
You read too far into things. I just re-read my post - and while i'm supremely disappointed that Myrd wont touch that area, i'm not boo-hooing and pestering him to do it or other fantastical changes that would take forever
. And i quote: "Oh well. Life is full of could-have-beens."
Proj into Mons is fantastic, but compared to limit raising it's a small feature - just something to take away what otherwise would be tedious scripting work (of course we're all thankful for that, since IMO scripting is a pain in the ass).
Anyway just taking away some of the words that were put in my mouth
Heh, seems putting words into ppl's mouth is something I'm getting very good at these days - especially yours Ooga.
You're correct, no-one has any right to work on Myth 2, nor TFL or Myth 3 either.
If you have old films going OOS that aren't from the 1.4.x era, please send them to Myrd (I can't help right now due to the death yesterday of my latest laptop, which may explain my bad mood atm). Its important that we keep support for them if possible.
I was tying to explain that my post wasnt hostile. We're all on the same page in not wanting to fight. Everyone's on a hair trigger lately so i dont want any confusion and people thinking i'm randomly bashing myrd.
If disappointment came out about a subject separate from his new work, its because i'm disappointed. It's not the end of the world. I still mean what I said, but not in the slanderous way as it was percieved.
Cmon iron, it's me. I can be too enthusiastic when i voice my opinion, granted, but theres not much you guys could do to make me lose respect for you. I'm a fear junkie - i'm all about new features - and to me the unit limit is my number 1 wish list item - so yeah i'm kinda crushed, but i'll survive:P Myrd's got his reasons and I wont fight it, I just wish it could happen. Real bad!
PS EDIT: I'll make sure the films that dont function arent 1.4.x
Make no mistake Ooga holds Myrd and all the other magma devs in VERY high regard. He is just questioning the logic of the reasons why some things wouldnt be added and why its fine for others.
we have worked with Myrd off and on for YEARS and he allways is really cool to deal with and makes cool stuff happen for myth all the time.
I was proud to work with myrd over the years he is a great Myth steward indeed no dout.
What bothers ooga isnt what has been done or what IS being done, Ooga just means there seems to be a lack of logic when it comes to certain changes being made, or the reasons for not making them.
The reasons so far from other magma members have been "If we change this or add that it could increase the systems specs and take2 said not to do that."
Ok well here is the logic we are using...take2 only has an old assed version of the soruce code for myth 2 (like older then 1.3)
For them to even be able to tell what has been changed or what the changes have done, would require that take2 even HAS the current magma srouce code and a TEAM of software developers to REVERSE enginer what has been added up untill now to the code since their old bungie version of the myth2 source code. There is no way to do this really, since system requirements are based on semantics anyways and arent really defineable or exact in any way. the requirements for myth 2 are: windows 95/98
200 mhz pentium 1, 64 megs system RAM and 4 megs Video card RAM.
Can the current versions of myth even run on those specs? Has anybody checked? Should we even still care if its playable on such low system specs??
I would say since NOBODY is using a computer that old to play games or anything else it does NOT matter.
Hell even CBI and some other user created plugs have soo many units and effects taking place on certain campains and maps, that it would be completely UNPLAYABLE on a 200 mhz PC. And these are just plugins im talking about not even code or engine settings changes. Yet they increase the system specs.
The changes and directions ooga is talking about that he wished would be implemented, are From what we have gathered to be rather simple, after asking MANY questions to other Progeject Magma types over the years.
These Wish list Changes are belived to be somewhat simple to implement:
1. Increased number limit of mosters on the map (current limit is like 425)
2. Increased Projectile number limit
3. Increased LPRG limit.
4. Increased Camera height/ view distance. (this would increase specs the most maybe so it might not be so important)
As we understand it after speaking with Myrd and others many times over the years, these changes would require only altering the number value settings that currently dictate these limits. This kind of thing was done long ago to make units vet up to 250+ instead of the old limit that was
- 128/+128 Myrd changed the valuve to just positive 256.
The changes i listed above are what we would like to have done, so as artists and game developers we would have more TOOLS are our disposal
to create astmosphere and tell storys within the myth universe on a larger then seen before scale. (still focused on small squad combat as well mind you)
Anyways Ooga's got on lame ass RL stuff going on currently and maybe is just a bit bummed out.
We all know Magma works in their spare time and are volunteers,
We also know we are VERY lucky to have such dedicated people helping to keep evreybodys favorite franchise alive and more modern then ever.
To continue talking about raising system specs and other issues not related to Carl's project - make a new thread please, then edit-move your posts and stop hijacking Carl's thread.
) so you can view his forum.
