Should Bungie Downloadable maps be mandatory? (Via update.)

[remedial]

Thanks for the links VR- so I guess they were pretty much a separate entity- something like a "feeder team" for Bungie towards the end.

But I'd still like to track down the hotline conversation I saw a long while back- (might have been on the Idiots MM hotline?) It was interesting stuff.

Also, in it I recall Fisj saying that the Vista fellows were put off after they recognized the M2 multiplayer maps as re-vitalized Badlands projects. But then again, its not really my place to explain some power-struggle that I had no part of - its just cool that some of these old-school groups had such a close connection with Bungie itself.

[Baak]

I appreciate the references to Leagues from Somewhere and Triskelion.

If adding LFS is a serious possibility, I would be happy to quickly rebuild it and add the single Leagues from Nowhere original bungie mesh into the plugin, thus making it an enhanced version of the original. LFS reworks the map with "even" starts (e.g. 2-, 4-), a Dorf Riot map (which I would be sure uses Flare Dorfs), and extra game types, etc. The Uber Ghol Riot meshes add the original version of that game which is very playable, and includes a fixed/updated version of bungie's awesome Swineherd Stampede unit for -- you guessed it -- Stampede games.

Triskelion is a major reworking of the original Cryptic Wightings map, which was extremely rough (basically unfinished). I would definitely not include Cryptic Wightings in the map pack, but if Triskelion is seriously considered for entry then I would also be happy to change the map names and readme to make it more Myth-like. It's a very playable map with some interesting features added to take advantage of 1.6. The start layout for a couple of maps is completely unique afaik, and the 2-team games are really fun (so is the 6-start FFA Flag Rally among others). There are no crazy units on the map, just a couple of meshes that are "Dorf Only" so you can play RDF or Flare Dorfs or any other Dorf conversion on top of them. I would redo these using Flare Dorfs (ala Mudpit Mega Mix) to round it out.

[William Wallet]

I don't think it should be mandatory at all.

I think it's *much* more important that the peasants on Proving/Killing Grounds be made to shut the hell up.

[remedial]

I think it's *much* more important that the peasants on Proving/Killing Grounds be made to shut the hell up.

Hahahah definitely.

"Wi-hoo, woo-hoo, ALL-Right!"

[Jon God]

I don't think it should be mandatory at all.

I think it's *much* more important that the peasants on Proving/Killing Grounds be made to shut the hell up.

Curious on why you thnik so?

Oh, and I agree with the peasants on PG/KG.

[Renwood TWA]

Breath some new life into myth's multiplayer.....

Add ALL bungie created maps regardless of when they were released.
gothic was an exclusive commission by EB games for their M2 SB inventory. at least a limited run of them for like the first 5,000 copies shipped to EB. so to say gothic was incomplete is inncorrect.
Maybe the version we have on the myth2 CD isnt the same version as the one that shipped (anybody got that one?) but it was intended and WAS a completed bungie map and design.

So ANY map made by a bungie employee should be included in the 1.7 update so it COMES with the download and we ALL have them.

and any maps that bungie made that had bugs or anything that required a fixed updated version, we then find and test the better versions of PRSP maps then use those. (if required)

it would be great to get some official bungie maps nobody ever plays INTO the normal rotation on mnet.

Any sacrafice people have to make with larger downloads is MORE then worth it for the entire community.

-Renwood

[Baak]

gothic was an exclusive commission by EB games for their M2 SB inventory. at least a limited run of them for like the first 5,000 copies shipped to EB. so to say gothic was incomplete is inncorrect

I was referring to Cryptic Wightings, not Gothic.

I didn't realize Gothic was somehow "official" -- here's the readme included with Gothic v1, dated 2000-07-24:

Code: Select all

Digging around in Amber one day I found a cool little pregame for a map titled "Gothic". Of course the pregame was the only thing that was there. I immediately wanted to play it. When I mentioned it to Demosthenes, he said, "That looks just like Cryptic Wightings !" We downloaded Cryptic, which only had about 140 downloads, and no known author. We can only assume that bungie had to cut the map, unknowingly leaving the pregame on the CD, and somebody released the map later on.

We played it and loved it. It had a really spectacular color map, with different unit combinations then bungie is normaly known for. "Peace on the Ramparts" had just been renovated by Creation, so we thought we would follow in that tradition and spruce up Gothic. The water was plain ugly, so its been totally redone. Models were even found buried under the mesh (see our excavation picture on the web page). So we got to work, making new meshes (we left the two originals), new overheads, new lighting, new particle systems, new pregames, new scenery, new local projectiles, new sounds...
So in the end it turned out quite well. Wish we could say we made it, but we just gave it new life. Our web page shows some comparisons of the old to new, please take a look.

Heres a list of the meshes:

Classic Light- Good ol' fashioned light units, similar to Untamed or Grave. This mesh has 6 starts.

Classic Dark- This one is really fun, with a very intresting mix of units. You can get Mauls, Dwarf Heros, Soulless, Spiders, Wights, Ghasts, and Warlocks with the confusion spell. I know it sounds wierd, but for some crazy reason it just works. Give it a try! This mesh has 6 starts.

Light Teams- The first of our new meshes, this one is classic light units and then some. The unit selection resembles Gimble, but with quite a few more units to use. In addition to these normal units, you also get a new one, the Slaugh! The Slaugh uses the unimplimented alternate thrall sprites, also known as thrall elite or lich. The Slaugh is your basic 1 point cannon fodder, that moves faster then a thrall but has less life. This mesh has 2 starts.

Dark Teams- Heres a different sort of mesh for those adventurous types. Unit selection includes Myrks, Herons, Mauls, Ghasts, Soulless, Bre'unor, Spiders, Warlocks(sorry, these are netgame ones), and Forrest Giants! Don't worry, these are the wonderfully done Mormith Forest Giant, not the old jerky 2-frame ones.

Dorf Riot- What's an Idiot map without a tfl dorf riot? This is probably one of our best, because of the varied and intresting terrain. Watch out for the rain that can sneak up on ya once and a while, and make sure you try out Koth with six players, great fun:)

We hope you enjoy this map as much as we have!

Special thanks to our order "Even Idiots Can Win" for testing, especially Inferno, our ultimate beta tester, who: "omg I r0x j00 at g0thik drak mb" 

Thanks to ReAnimator for the Dragon Fly, (I couldn't find you email, so I hope you don't mind that I used this). Creation, I beleive the original water texture came from their Hotline Server.

And now for the obligatory legal babble:

The Idiots Mapmaking Collective recognize the pre-existing rights and responsibilities of Bungie Software Products Corporation ("Bungie"). All appropriate graphics © 1997-2000, All Rights Reserved. Bungie Software Products Corporation. Portions of the Software made with Fear and/or Loathing and/or other Bungie products, tools or generally published documentation remain under the prior license agreements for the use of those software products. Stay good Sam, Stay good! Myth: The Fallen Lords, Myth II: Soulblighter, Fear, and Loathing © 1996-2000. All Rights Reserved. Bungie Software Products Corporation.

I don't know if they fixed all the water problems (they were everywhere), along with LOTS of terrain problems, and... heck, the list was endless. But if so, then I'd say Gothic is an updated version of Cryptic Wightings just like Triskelion is.

[Renwood TWA]

yes Baak i ment cryptic, im just going by what its called in fear and loathing. ~8^)

[GodzFire]

Isn't the full list:

- Boil and Bubble, Toil and Trouble
- Creep On The Borderlands
- Cryptic Wightings
- Fosgarach Ruillick
- Going to Town
- Leagues from Nowhere
- Pheonix Rising

Personally, I see no problems including these. The more to keep Myth alive, the better.

EDIT: Another feature which would create more gameplay I believe, is to include a simple 'Light vs Dark' option for single player maps.

[Renwood TWA]

I would add Raisin barn to that list, since Ferrex made it.

We also are releasing a new updated version to work with 1.7 and fix the forever sprinting spider queen bug. And we are adding new tournament mesh versions as per the MWC tourny commission as well.

O and look people should really look forward to the all new gametypes we are implementing! they are pretty exciting and something never really before seen that people will enjoy that adds action to the maps!

-Ren

[Jon God]

I would add Raisin barn to that list, since Ferrex made it.

We also are releasing a new updated version to work with 1.7 and fix the forever sprinting spider queen bug. And we are adding new tournament mesh versions as per the MWC tourny commission as well.

O and look people should really look forward to the all new gametypes we are implementing! they are pretty exciting and something never really before seen that people will enjoy that adds action to the maps!

-Ren

Who is Ferrex?

[iron]

Badlands member, works for Bungie I believe.

[The Elfoid]

While there is some disagreement over Baak's plugs being included here as far as I can tell from a quick read, I think the key point to take from this debate and the poll is that lots of people would like to see the maps added.

Why not add the ones we can AGREE on then debate adding further ones (such as Baak's variants) later?

It'd be nice to see them integrated into Myth so you don't have to switch the plugs on; which would be fine as we'd all know everyone had them. I think people would play them a LOT more often if that was done

Maybe put up polls on MariusNet and TWS2 forums (the "competitive people" are still hanging around on there until the MWC09 site goes up) to get a more community-wide opinion.

[Pyro]

I wish there was a third option, the indifferent option. Sure having some maps added to the default removes that one step of activating the plugins and makes sure everyone has it. However, if people are that lazy, well... there is a plugin filter now. Type a few letters and the list of plugins only includes the ones that have those characters you typed.

A better idea would be some sort of favorite plugins. Where players somehow have tagged certain plugins as their favorites and show up in the list with the default maps without having to activate them. Then if they load that map, then only that plugin is loaded.

[Baak]

yes Baak i ment cryptic, im just going by what its called in fear and loathing. ~8^)

I hear ya, but I'm still not with you on Gothic/Cryptic being somehow bungie/badlands related? Seems like Gothic was an Idiots update to Cryptic Wightings?

I wish there was a third option, the indifferent option. Sure having some maps added to the default removes that one step of activating the plugins and makes sure everyone has it. However, if people are that lazy, well... there is a plugin filter now. Type a few letters and the list of plugins only includes the ones that have those characters you typed.

A better idea would be some sort of favorite plugins. Where players somehow have tagged certain plugins as their favorites and show up in the list with the default maps without having to activate them. Then if they load that map, then only that plugin is loaded.

The more I've thought about this over the weekend the more I agree with you, Pyro.


BTW, Going to Town is really interesting at first, but after playing it a few times you realize why it was axed. Seriously imbalanced map. I'd remove it and Cryptic Wightings to leave:

- Boil and Bubble, Toil and Trouble
- Creep On The Borderlands
- Fosgarach Ruillick
- Leagues from Nowhere
- Phoenix Rising

As the bungie/badlands maps.