Plugin - Valley of Despair

[GHOST®]

Don't know where my post went...

It is still there.
As for not playing like Myth2, sometimes mapmakers try to make things different to change things up.

Personally, when MythII came out, the non TFL style turning was one of my turns offs initially, and it TOTALLY killed any interest for me in MIII as it looks silly/stupid, imho, to just spin in place to turn around. To each his own i guess. Sorry it detracted from your having fun playing VoD. :o(

[Platinum]

Well it's not going to sway me from continuing to play it in hopes of beating it. But I'm just saying the level is hard enough itself, and I am so mechanical/muscle memory oriented that I don't like when things are altered like that.

[Platinum]

Hmm and apparently if you try scouting too far with a unit, the AI forcefully makes it return to your group. Now that's annoying

[vinylrake]

Hmm and apparently if you try scouting too far with a unit, the AI forcefully makes it return to your group. Now that's annoying

Yeah how am I supposed to ever win a solo map if I can't exploit quirks of the AI?

[GHOST®]

Hmm and apparently if you try scouting too far with a unit, the AI forcefully makes it return to your group. Now that's annoying :(

Yeah how am I supposed to ever win a solo map if I can't exploit quirks of the AI?

Support/Feedback

It has come to my attention . . .

2. Units circling back to the Dorfs.
I apologize for not mentioning these in the VoD Read This.html. Whats going on here is when i was rescripting TJC into VoD, i recalled that TJC's script could be easily broken or manipulated by players sending out a single unit to trigger and draw in the enemy to be slaughtered at the players leisure. To eliminate this possibility, i scripted VoD so that any unit that gets X world units away from the Dorfs will fall back to them. X is farthest in Timid to Normal play, less far in Heroic, and even less still in Legendary.

This is not ideal i know, but the alternative where i had Myrm's spawn underneath the units that wandered too far was even less so, as it almost always resulted in the death of the unit(s). If playing sOlO, this shouldnt really be an issue for most, and if playing CooP, well, youre supposed to cooperate anyways, so no need to be running off too far on your own. ;o)

[vinylrake]

[minor spoiler]

I saw your earlier explanation, no worries. Although I joked about it, I was half-serious, not being a great micromanager what I would normally do is set up a good formation, maybe some satchels, and arcs ready, then send a zerk or two off ahead to trigger any enemy attacks and use zerks to herd the units/lead them to my trap. That just doesn't work with VoD because you have to get too far ahead of the wave spawn points to get back to a spot where you can't be surrounded once you've triggered them.

[GHOST®]

Just as an aside;

The 12+ years of playing, testing, and making/scripting/debugging maps has exposed me to almost every play style/trick/exploit thats been seen in Myth II: Soulblighter, and i have learned to close most those *loopholes* in each succession of my maps. I know some people rely on or even enjoy some of these *exploits*, it is however my perogative to either allow or prevent such tactics depending how my maps speak to me while building/play-testing them.

I didnt, nor ever, make any of these decisions lightly, and most everything goes through many variations for the best fit of flow, fun, difficulty, *i wants*, WOW!, etc. before i finally settle on what i *percieve* as the best balance between all those things.

This particular solution of forcing units to fallback to the Dwarfs (which can be stopped at any point after they turn), was the best of about 4 other solutions i tested various set ups of. The aformentioned, Myrks/Saken Spawn on wayward unit(s), Add cumbersome Script to VoD to test and adjust/MUNG map actions accordingly for player splitting into 2+ groups/running units off further than X apart, Send a Mass of Thrall, or Tro/GMyrks, or whatever to come enforce the notion you should stay together, OR, what i finally settled on after much fine tuning. That wayward units *just* turn back/return towards dorfs, you never lose control and can actually bounce them at their leashes end pretty well if you are intent on it. ;o)

Sure, there was that fifth choice, i could just *let* the player do whatever, run units out, all_the_way to the first bridge, AND back even !! :oO Yes, that was originally possible, though difficult, either way it TOTALLY made VoD's gameplay no_where_near how i intended nor wanted, so i made a judgement call. Had VoD not been a linear map, i may well have decided differently. In the end I hardly even noticed this *restriction* on my gameplay and adjusted quickly to it, even learning to *exploit* this fault/feature to send a unit out to scout unattended, knowing he will come back on his own, allowing me a spare second or 2 to micro my other units. ;o)

Anyways,

I can understand the frustration some players can have playing outside their *comfort* zone, as i too experience this in other peoples maps. However, I do go to great lengths to make as much as possible apparent or accesible via Read Me, Pregame Story, Hints, Objectives, etc to help prepare/forewarn players what to expect. When i play other peoples maps, i try to forego my *normal* style of play initially and let the Maps speak/dictate to me, then as i become more familiar with the map, i can use or not use my own style as it works within the map, but maybe thats just me ?? ;op

Other things, visual, such as the overhead map comes down to being my fault/oversite. That OH is perfectly fine and AWESOME on my rig, but after watching a couple Myth YouTubes, i noticed many folks still play at a lower resolution than I do and this apparently makes it bigger bulkier for those individuals. It is something i am already looking into resolving for the map i am currently trying to finish off, but it may again come down to a judgement call ?? :o(

Lastly, i personally prefer TFL gameplay, the uncertainity was half the fun IMO !! "i hope that bottle exp... DAMN!! DUD!@! RUNAWAY!!!!" ;o)

[juliocpaes]

Ghost wrote : " -This particular solution of forcing units to fallback to the Dwarfs. "

Ghost, new scripting are welcome.
The solution for this plugin, I guess it was good. because in this story, the berserks are more disciplined,
they not forgetting that their mission is to protect the dwarves, in another story, for example, in Bragada (TFL)
the berserks, they attack and forget itself of the group . well, depending on the story they have a specific conduct.
in my view, I like to enjoy the scenery of the story, and playability of VOD allows this it.
the attack of the enemies are not those waves and more waves attacking incessantly, eg as MAZARIM. I guess it is exhausting. however, each player has a taste.


Julio

[vinylrake]

Other things, visual, such as the overhead map comes down to being my fault/oversite. That OH is perfectly fine and AWESOME on my rig, but after watching a couple Myth YouTubes, i noticed many folks still play at a lower resolution than I do and this apparently makes it bigger bulkier for those individuals. It is something i am already looking into resolving for the map i am currently trying to finish off, but it may again come down to a judgement call ?? (

I don't fiddle with the overhead map much while playing so excuse my ignorance, but aren't all overheads resizable now? If so is there some reason your overhead map isn't resizable - or is it that you have a large default size and in-game overhead display can't be made any smaller than the image's actual resolution?

[punkUser]

I don't fiddle with the overhead map much while playing so excuse my ignorance, but aren't all overheads resizable now? If so is there some reason your overhead map isn't resizable - or is it that you have a large default size and in-game overhead display can't be made any smaller than the image's actual resolution?

It is, but it still conforms to the "default" size that it would have been at - I believe - 640x480. Else the Myth purists would freak out But yes, you can modify the size and indeed it will even remember that now. Beware though that it remembers the overall change that you did (i.e. "made it 2x bigger") and applies that to all maps, so mapmakers should try and make their overheads relatively consistent with other maps and the original Myth 2 ones.

[Platinum]

I got over halfway through the map, with no losses in online mode, destined to become the first to beat it, until a wight appeared from the water behind me, and my dwarf decided to auto on it THROUGH my clumped melee. I have never seen that happen in any myth before. The dwarf didn't even stumble and say "make a hole" or anything. Literally just shot out of box formation with zerks standing in front of it. Both dwarves blew up and I lost instantly. Took me an hour and a half to get that far too

[vinylrake]

Took me an hour and a half to get that far too

Good thing you were playing solo so you could at least save every few minutes.

[DarthRevan555]

Took me an hour and a half to get that far too

Good thing you were playing solo so you could at least save every few minutes.

So then VoD better to play solo than online? playing online adds risk of clumsy deaths with no saves :O!!!

*ahem... online save games?* (impossible)

[Platinum]

Took me an hour and a half to get that far too

Good thing you were playing solo so you could at least save every few minutes.

You must have misread my post. I said I was playing online mode. If not for the unfortunate blunder, I would have gone all the way.

[vinylrake]

Yes, I misread. Apologies for the snark. I don't play solo in on-line mode for just that reason. Ok, that and the fact that I would never finish a level if I couldn't stop or slow things down.