tain.totalcodex.net

Its not only a respectful common courtesy to do so but in many cases it leads people to believe that the person releasing the map actually did the work. I personally don't care if people use my stuff but I can see how others would... I couldn't tell you how many times people thought someone else created something that I made, even if there was a README.

People actually read those?

only people interested in the details. or people who are trying to figure out if the 8 zips they have of a map with different names are really all the same. or what the difference is between 'v1.01.Final' and 'v.1.01 Gold'

My work mentions the original authors on the website, in the manual, in the pregames, and in game.

using the old pregame with an update i think is acceptable... cuz yes it does give a clue that this was a previous release... by updating/ adding text to it etc...
for the last several maps plugs etc.. i have been making I add the readme / credits into in game level hints also good for coops to have credit text show on screen at start of game... I think that works even better than a text file in the download... I do think anything released on the tain should in the description say as much as possible...

as for zaks attitude in replying to this I would say that says a lot... i mean really you spent all that time why not spend some more and update at least the tain descriptions. (which you have on many so thats cool) and you have done some good work to help make old maps fun ... so you get the credit for that. don't get all roid rage now and press admins too delete...

Zak do understand that just opening up a map changing the unit mix then reposting under a new name may make for better game play etc... though it does at least deserve a shout out to the person that spent all the time making the map in the first place. I know far to well its not always possible to get all the credits right though at least appear to make some effort.

thats my 2cents ...

Road wrote:People actually read those?

I find it insulting and completely illogical that people wouldn't read a README (specifically MY readmes, screw the rest of you). I spend all this time writing the thing; coming up with little blurbs, screenshots, images, even install instructions and then people ignore it. In fact, I expect people to print out my manuals in full-fucking color (double sided with page numbers), put it in binding, and read it while taking a shit. And if you don't, I expect you to lie to me and tell me you do so I feel better about myself.

well Gray, _I_ read your readmes. I even read them out loud and recorded them and saved them as mp3 files on my iPod so I can listen to them during my daily commute.

Grayswandir wrote:

Road wrote:People actually read those?

I find it insulting and completely illogical that people wouldn't read a README (specifically MY readmes, screw the rest of you). I spend all this time writing the thing; coming up with little blurbs, screenshots, images, even install instructions and then people ignore it. In fact, I expect people to print out my manuals in full-fucking color (double sided with page numbers), put it in binding, and read it while taking a shit. And if you don't, I expect you to lie to me and tell me you do so I feel better about myself.

Nominated for best post of 2011.

Jon God wrote:

Grayswandir wrote:

Road wrote:People actually read those?

I find it insulting and completely illogical that people wouldn't read a README (specifically MY readmes, screw the rest of you). I spend all this time writing the thing; coming up with little blurbs, screenshots, images, even install instructions and then people ignore it. In fact, I expect people to print out my manuals in full-fucking color (double sided with page numbers), put it in binding, and read it while taking a shit. And if you don't, I expect you to lie to me and tell me you do so I feel better about myself.

Nominated for best post of 2011.

This ^^

LMFAO.

As a free user, who doesn't make maps but plays a lot of coop. I dont honestly think credit is so much of an issue. What is more of a requirement is that after registering your account with the tain. You should be able to download one plugin freely.

Then when you try to download the 2nd plugin it should be mandatory to leave feedback on the first you previously downloaded, and consistently repeated that once feedback is left. you download the next map, then leave feedback for the next plugin downloaded and so forth rating it out of five.

However- making sure that you can not leave feedback on the same plugin/version a second time but you may at any stage be able to edit it.

Going back on the real topic of credit due, No I rarely read the Readme file unless I find a problem. I doubt you guys who make maps will ever get people to read credits even for popular games people just don't, but leaving a review would give people incentive to look at others comments and give you all room for improvement with our diverse opinions.

kingthrall wrote:I dont honestly think credit is so much of an issue.

It isn't an issue for a "free user". It can bother the person who made it if others start assuming certain things were really made by someone else. Which is only an issue when you start hearing something like "oh so and so made that I think". So that misleads people into thinking the wrong person made something good.

kingthrall wrote:I rarely read the Readme file unless I find a problem. I doubt you guys who make maps will ever get people to read credits even for popular games people just don't, but leaving a review would give people incentive to look at others comments ...

Just because you don't read them doesn't mean all people are like that. Just because you read reviews doesn't mean many others do either.

Pyro wrote:

kingthrall wrote:I dont honestly think credit is so much of an issue.

It isn't an issue for a "free user". It can bother the person who made it if others start assuming certain things were really made by someone else. Which is only an issue when you start hearing something like "oh so and so made that I think". So that misleads people into thinking the wrong person made something good.

kingthrall wrote:I rarely read the Readme file unless I find a problem. I doubt you guys who make maps will ever get people to read credits even for popular games people just don't, but leaving a review would give people incentive to look at others comments ...

Just because you don't read them doesn't mean all people are like that. Just because you read reviews doesn't mean many others do either.

I have not made any Coop Maps for Myth 2 I just dont have the proper tools or the patience. However I have made a lot of star-craft 2 and 1 maps with tonnes of triggers and conditions. If I was to do a poll on who actually reads the readme file in the myth community (if there were enough online at the time). It would be an overwhelming majority of not reading and not knowing what the tain website is.

When I play a map, and somebody has taken sources without permission (I Myself am a culprit) I judge a plugin not by colormeshes and textures only but by the level of difficulty and replay value. This is why games like mazz demise and Across gjol 3 are so popular. A point also I need to make is if you credit the person anyway, all the "free users" wont even give a shit to be honest how the map has been made.

Believe me that you do not want to fall into the trap that making maps makes you feel somewhat superior in judging a map than the average player as I have done in the past with Starcraft, because its not always the case as if you make enough great maps such as Ghost then people will recognise your name regardless.

Yah.. and GHOST gives credit to those for the stuff he uses that he didnt make himself and whether or not anyone reads the read me has NOTHING to do with it...

Its like when you do a research paper for school... you can copy stuff out of another book but you have to give that author credit.

Kingthrall, it's not a question of 'feeling superior at judging maps' or of 'recognition' for the mapmaker, it's a question of being a dick or not on the part of the person using someone else's creation.

If you use something someone else created and you don't give the person credit you are just being a dick. Pure and simple. (and not the good kind)

I don't see where you get the idea that anyone here thinks that everyone or even a majority of players read the readme. That is not the point. You mention Ghost, clearly credit has worked even if not in the form of a readme for you to know his name. Imagine what would have happened if most of Ghost's work was from someone else. You would just assume Ghost's work is great and might overlook the rest of the work of whoever that someone else was and not download other awesome stuff.

I am confused by the term "free user", is there someone that actually pays for anything here? Call them players as a non-player has no use for myth plugins. (Mapmakers can be considered players because they still play a little too. ) A poll would mean nothing because not all players visit the forums.

Even if no player ever read the readme, there is still a higher chance of other mapmakers reading it. Sometimes they want to borrow certain aspects of other plugins or even figure out how some of it was made for their own work. Reading the credits lets them know who they can talk to for that.

Some players do judge maps differently than you do. Not everyone thinks the same or this thread would not exist. It is not like we here are just basing everything on some assumption. I read readmes... it stands to reason there might be others that might read them or even want them for whatever reason.

well i know ghost because his games are usually labeled by Ghost ect on the plugin image when you are using the plugin.

By the way I am not saying "im against giving credit that is due" that isnt what I am saying. What I am saying is, credit is more rewarding and much more appreciated by the users who play your maps regardless of what resources you have used. So mandatory credit to resources yes I agree it should be done.

However users that use your plugins should also have to write a few reviews on your maps to actually give you some understanding on what to improve.