Page 15 of 18
Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 11:51 pm
by Jon God
William Wallet wrote:vinylrake wrote:
I am not a big fan or nor am I approving of the way certain 'farewells' were handled, but your comment about 'locking away' myth materials "that are not his to lock away in the first place' is a little off base.
I don't see how. This isn't a question of someone being compelled to hand stuff out for moral or ethical reasons. My post was purely about Stufflebean/Bagnall being dicks.
It's not really what you do but how you do it. All of the people with these materials have opted to do the same thing and hold onto them. Some of them were dicks about it, whereas the one I spoke to wasn't; in fact he was quite nice!
Maybe I'm playing God and making too big a judgement, but I say that if someone is decent in their conduct then they aren't the worst person to be watching over old Bungie stuff.
If someone has a hissy fit because he's not being appreciated and locks his "Everything Related to Myth" DVDs in a cabinet behind the Ark of the Covenant, then that falls into dick territory.
I believe I oversimplified my point of view with the "that are not his to lock away in the first place" comment, though, and you're right to point it out.
As far as I'm concerned, no one ought to have the stuff, but they do, and it's out amongst 2 or 3 or so people, and to me that means it's leaked and it doesn't matter if it leaks further. Big whoop...
But if it's going to be kept by a small group of people, or even one individual, I'd prefer it to be someone that conducts themselves in a decent manner. Not people like... well I name-dropped enough earlier up the page.
With someone like CIK I feel that they're safe, with a (perhaps far off in the future) feeling that something productive can be done with them and that they're being preserved in the best interests of us few Myth types.
With Bagnall or Stufflebean, it's more like they've got some photos of an old girlfriend from high school and they'd rather just leave it at the bottom of a drawer and forget about it. Nevermind the fact that there's people around who want to make sterling Myth content with that girlfriend.
Well, that's where the analogy loses it's footing, but I was onto something.
Well, I will say that I was not posting in this thread to start up more insults. Insulting people isn't going to do anything, and certainly, if they haven't given out the models yet, then insulting them wont change how they are thinking.
I was just questioning 'Why?' Because it seems to me, unless they have plans to make something with them, just holding onto them and not giving them to people who WILL make stuff with them, is pointless.
I am not insulting anyone here, and I advise you all to do the same.
Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 3:30 am
by William Wallet
Indeed...
if I have said anything that's construed as insulting, then take it merely as a sign that (on some level) I do still care about the subject matter and it's easy to get carried away.
On the subject of models, one might ask just how many practical uses there could even be for the things at this late date. Sure it'd be neat having solid-death body projectiles that tumble about (with a nice tumbling in flight animation) if they're shifted by an explosion (as opposed to merely blown to bits), but
it's probably not high on anyones list of Myth priorities.
To my mind it would simply be cool to see more promo style artwork done with the things. Maybe an enterprising soul could do a short take on some of the TFL cutscenes, using models instead of cartoons?
Stuff like that. I dunno. Pure timewasting hobbyist stuff, but I'd get a kick out of it. As someone who even now is continuing to make the
Odd Video using goofy old games and their included materials, I personally would have a ball helping out with that kind of thing.
Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:07 am
by Deqlyn
Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:48 am
by William Wallet
Well at least we know your mouse is working.
Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:30 am
by Deqlyn
With all these diplomatic posts and conversations, its a wonder we haven't gotten the models already....
keyboard works too
Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 10:12 am
by William Wallet
Mouse works, keyboard works. Step 3 - use your fingers, not your nose.
Now look, in all seriousness, all jesting aside, not two posts ago I was admitting that I get carried away on this topic (because it's a matter that I've been chasing for years on and off) and that I'd be willing to be proven wrong in matters of *perceived* Myth Developer Dickery. I say that with the utmost conviction. I was also brainstorming on what folks might do, if they ever did get their hands on this stuff... I'd be more interested in hearing your thoughts on this than glib one liners.
You have to understand something here. When I was still making maps and modding Myth on a regular basis, the community had to put up with things like Blades getting the plug pulled on Magma, and Clem offering choice pieces of semi-lurker wisdom in the forum. That is the impression they left me with - I should, of course, have given them the benefit of the doubt as it's been years since all of that silliness.
Meet me halfway on this, will you? Hell I'll even scoot over to your side of halfway if you like.. I might be ill-informed here, but being ambiguous and sarcastic does little to enlighten me on the topic...
I want what's best for Myth, and hang any egos that stand in the way. We are all in the Myth boat together.
Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 2:02 pm
by vinylrake
Everyone is welcome to their opinions about individuals in the community, past present and future. But there's really not much point in trying to convince someone that his/her opinion of someone is wrong - opinion is purely subjective.
Since opinion Is subjective, there is even LESS point in complaining about people's behavior that occurred 4-6-8 however many years ago, especially when those people aren't around to present their side of the story - which if they were going to do wouldn't belong in this thread anyways. It's just not sporting to publically badmouth people (whatever the motive) behind their backs (when they aren't here).
But back to the topic - WITHOUT getting into personalities - a website owner has NO obligation whatsoever to share content from a dead website no matter how nicely or rudely someone asks/complains. It's just a fact that a website owner has a right to keep any files on his webserver to himself and it shouldn't be expected that the owner is going to go digging out his CDs/HD/DVDs and send people files everytime or anytime someone asks/complains. Expecting people to 'do the right thing' (e.g. whatever _I_ think they should do) just because you want them to is a recipe for dissapointment.
I agree it would be NICE to have the original models and all that, personally I'd rather get my hands on things that DIDN'T make it into the game - artwork, levels that never got finished, early betas of TFL with ingame unit-macro-scripting, etc. BUT as several people on the forums here ahve demonstrated, if you have the time and skills or things it's possible to recreate anything from the games or even things that are even better than the original (ex. all the diff high res units, and new units, models, etc)
Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 2:36 pm
by Pyro
As for what could be done if the original models were obtained. Hi-res versions of them could be made. Though this has been done before by Iron, there could be even higher res versions made from them. New animations/sequences could be made for new attacks and unit variations. Like have the bowman have a melee attack using his bow as the blunt object. Make a pick up sequence for the Trow. Make a sequence of a peasant caught on fire running around. Give units a jumping sequence. So on and so on.
Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 3:55 pm
by Deqlyn
WW - I dont care about anyones opinion on past things or feelings. I just want you to stop bashing insulting people who have the models who may be reading these forums which would in turn jepordize us getting them.
Would you let me borrow 100 bucks if I insulted and publicly hated you for years and bashed you on forums behind your back. I sure wouldn't.
Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:12 pm
by William Wallet
"Would you let me borrow 100 bucks if I insulted and publicly hated you for years and bashed you on forums behind your back. I sure wouldn't."
That would depend on how nicely you asked, and also it would depend on why you were bashing me and whether or not the problem still existed...
'I sure wouldn't' is proof positive that we're two different folks... I am quite willing to change my impression of someone if there's proof. I also don't really care much for money or possessions. Hehehe...
But whatever floats your boat man. As I keep pointing out, I'm more than willing to believe that my previous impressions of those guys are totally wrong all of these years later. If they even knew who I was, I'd offer them an apology!
"I agree it would be NICE to have the original models and all that, personally I'd rather get my hands on things that DIDN'T make it into the game - artwork, levels that never got finished, early betas of TFL with ingame unit-macro-scripting, etc. BUT as several people on the forums here ahve demonstrated, if you have the time and skills or things it's possible to recreate anything from the games or even things that are even better than the original"
Right on, it's a shame that Hooligan works for a living and got 'distracted' from the hi-res stuff, ha-ha...
"Though this has been done before by Iron, there could be even higher res versions made from them."
Absolutely. In conjunction with those M3 style texture maps, I reckon it'd look pretty awesome.
New unit animations are an interesting thought too. In the past I've had to hack them together (I made a charging warrior, once, which looked okay en masse but if you looked close up he seemed a bit silly). I even stuck a warrior on a horse for crying out loud, hehe... it'd be fun to do that for real, rather than in Photoshop.
Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 2:38 am
by Renwood TWA
You know as great as the original bungie myth models are, they are low res and really arent on par with what is being created nowdays in the generic video game. There isnt anything stopping any of us from learning how to model and animate, then making better/higher res versions of the myth characters then bungie even had to work with.
O wait....knowledge and dedication, thats whats stopping us.
Case in point, that guy who was making the Heron unit shown on these forums, he was a noob at modeling, and it still looked pretty damn good!
Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 3:35 am
by Pyro
I doubt he was a noob at modeling, he just didn't know how to get the model to Myth. So he wasn't new to modeling, just new at porting it to a collection tag.
Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 3:44 am
by Renwood TWA
no i mean he was a noob at modeling. no insult intended... he was a "rookie" lets say.
Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 4:15 am
by Jon God
Pyro wrote:As for what could be done if the original models were obtained. Hi-res versions of them could be made. Though this has been done before by Iron, there could be even higher res versions made from them. New animations/sequences could be made for new attacks and unit variations. Like have the bowman have a melee attack using his bow as the blunt object. Make a pick up sequence for the Trow. Make a sequence of a peasant caught on fire running around. Give units a jumping sequence. So on and so on.
This is exactly why I would want them in the hands of the community.
Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 5:14 am
by Graydon
Renwood TWA wrote:no i mean he was a noob at modeling. no insult intended... he was a "rookie" lets say.
No, Pyro is right. He was no newbie to making 3d models Renwood, that's what he does for a living. This is the reason the quality of the renders we saw was so damn high.
Get your facts straight before apparently insulting people behind their backs man.
