Myth II 1.7.2 Public Beta

[BIG KROK V8 SS]

so a double click and a shift click do the same action? normal click doesnt target all nearby enemies. it assigns your units random units in the red selection boxes, meaning they can be prone to moonwalking.

if you have your melee clump selected, and turn them and face a nearby clumped unit pack, then units moonwalk, and pathfind all over the place. in 1.3 they would all go to the nearest enemy units and kill them first. this would still cause moonwalking, but it was much easier to micro manage this way. so, if i do what i just said, and i arrow point my clump of melee into an enemy clump of melee, what action will they take?

[Pyro]

Yes, double click and shift click are the same for melee units, assuming you did not have TFL Mouse Actions enabled. I still don't see any difference in melee. Are you on a Mac or PC?

[BIG KROK V8 SS]

PC. all of the other commands are true, but the one where you turn and face a clumped melee to auto attack another clump is still different. they pathfind all over the place instead of attacking nearest enemy unit.

[Myrd]

This is not something that was changed in 1.7.2 and thus should not be discussed in this thread.

Please take the discussion of the melee behavior to another thread since it does not relate to 1.7.2 changes.

[Wismuth]

I just tried Myth II on Ubuntu 10.10 using Wine 1.2.2 that comes from "sudo apt-get install wine".

Myth II 1.7.1 works well, but Myth II 1.7.2 Public Beta doesn't register any click on the menu page. I can hear the music, and pressing "esc" quits myth, but it's not possible to do anything else because mouse clicks don't do anything.

[Myrd]

I just tried Myth II on Ubuntu 10.10 using Wine 1.2.2 that comes from "sudo apt-get install wine".

Myth II 1.7.1 works well, but Myth II 1.7.2 Public Beta doesn't register any click on the menu page. I can hear the music, and pressing "esc" quits myth, but it's not possible to do anything else because mouse clicks don't do anything.

Does the problem happen in the latest Wine development release too? (1.3.12 per http://www.winehq.org/download/)

[Melekor]

In 1.7.2 we started using GetKeyState instead of GetAsyncKeyState to check if the mouse is clicked, because GetKeyState respects the user's control panel preference for swapped left/right mouse buttons. This only works on XP or higher though, so we first check the OS version. WINE claims to be XP, but its GetKeyState call works like on 9x, so the end result is the mouse doesn't work. There's a fairly simple workaround which I will implement for the final.

[Wismuth]

Interesting, Melekor. I can get Myth II 1.7.2 beta to work if I tell Wine to mimic Windows ME or below, but not Windows 2000 or above. So that's one way to fix it in Wine. But since Wine defaults to Windows XP as you said, it would be nice to add a fix in Myth itself.

Myrd, sorry I'm too lazy to try a development release.

[BIG KROK V8 SS]

Dunno if this has been addressed, but when I'm using this patch, and I try to T-click an enemy target, it takes a couple of tries to do so. It's like the click isn't registering quickly enough when I hit T and when I click. Takes a couple of seconds to let it set and a couple clicks for the T to work. Also notice similar clicking issues when trying to click on units and select them with clicking.

[Khadrelt]

I've noticed something weird happening with reflexive special abilities. If I lay a satchel charge with the Dwarf, for instance, no matter how long the recovery time is set for I can make him lay them as fast as the animation allows. Trying to throw a bottle afterward, though, seems to be affected by the compound of the recovery times built up by the special ability—i.e., if I lay 5 satchels in a row, it seems to take 5 times longer to use the normal attack. I messed around with giving warriors a special ability, too, and it was the same situation, but only if the special ability was reflexive.

It's also doing the same thing in 1.7.1, not just this beta. I have a hard time seeing something like that being missed for that long, so if I really missed something earlier and this has already been discussed, sorry…if it hasn't been, that leads me to believe it's something just on my end.

Here's my Myth log, in case that helps…


2011-02-04 09:42:17
Myth II 32-Bit |iUniversal|p Build 368 running under MacOS 1066 (Intel) ----------------------------------------------
Loading poweruser.txt... not found.
Scanning for software devices...
Found 1 to use
Scanning for OpenGL devices...
Found 1 to use
Loading Patch Files...
Patch 1.2
Patch MariusNet
Patch 1.3
Patch 1.4
Patch 1.5
TFL Interface
Patch 1.7 Templates
Magma - Bungie Map Textures v1
Loading Patch Files Succeeded
Running OpenGL at 1280 x 800
Starting mesh "Willow Creek"...
Using 1.7.2 gameplay...
OpenGL: initialized with ErasePreviousFrame=0, Use32BitTextures=0, UseAppleClientStorage=1, UseDepthTest=1, UseShaders=1, UpdateCMapChunked=1
Closing Myth.

[Myrd]

I've noticed something weird happening with reflexive special abilities. If I lay a satchel charge with the Dwarf, for instance, no matter how long the recovery time is set for I can make him lay them as fast as the animation allows. Trying to throw a bottle afterward, though, seems to be affected by the compound of the recovery times built up by the special ability—i.e., if I lay 5 satchels in a row, it seems to take 5 times longer to use the normal attack. I messed around with giving warriors a special ability, too, and it was the same situation, but only if the special ability was reflexive.

It's also doing the same thing in 1.7.1, not just this beta. I have a hard time seeing something like that being missed for that long, so if I really missed something earlier and this has already been discussed, sorry…if it hasn't been, that leads me to believe it's something just on my end.

It's a known behaviour. We've considered "fixing" this before in a past update, but in the end decided it would change standard game mechanics too much. I believe I may have added a mapmaking feature at some point that, when enabled by the mapmaker, can "fix" this behaviour. But it's something we do not want to change by default, because people will complain.

[BIG KROK V8 SS]

dropping sats and then trying to throw always yields a pause in throwing action. same applies to most other units too. take a warlock and t/taunt/t/taunt over and over and after a little while you will find the warlock fails to fire main attack also.

[Khadrelt]

Yeah…but what if you want a unit's special ability to have a recovery time? As is they can use it as rapidly as their animation allows. Even if I put a recovery time of 10 on a unit's special ability they can still do it as if the recovery time was 0. It only affects them not being able to use their main ability next.

Maybe we're talking about different things here. I'm not talking about the special's recovery time affecting the main ability. I'm talking about the special's recovery time NOT EXISTING for the special attacks, and then the recovery times stacking on top of each other to prevent the main attack for quite a long time.

OK, suppose I have a dwarf with 10 satchels and a recovery time of 10 on his special ability. I can still lay all 10 satchels within just a few seconds, but it takes a recovery time of like 50 to use his bottle throw again. I don't think that's normal behavior.

[Myrd]

It's always been like that. If we make the recovery time "work" then suddenly a dwarf can't lay 4 satchels in a row really quick. People will complain because we changed game mechanics too much. Likewise, the delay before the dwarf's regular attack can be seen as a "penalty" for laying a lot of satchels - and getting rid of that may also piss people off.

EDIT: I've looked through the archives and found discussion of the satchel delay bug as early as May 2004 between ducky and iron. At the time, iron concluded that changing it would have a significant impact on WW2 mechanics for shooting, which share the same code.

[Khadrelt]

Hmm…funny I've never noticed it until now. Maybe I haven't used units with reflexive special abilities with long delays before. Or I'm getting senile in my old age.

So is there a way to make sure specials have a certain recovery time? Maybe I'll have to make it dependent on mana. That should work, then.