Myth II: adding resource gathering, base building

[MindBrain]

Woah I was having an extra crazy idea. There's nothing more radical than this. What if the Myth engine was tweaked to allow a basic economy and building system. Have the resources: wood, water, food, rock, metal, gold, Could be defined by an extra map (like how the height maps work)

Buildings could use the existing 3d models, limited to being placed on ground not too steep, with a foundation that extends below the surface, to blend in. Maybe rotatable in 8 directions.

Wow imagine that Myths perfect tactical game-play merged with traditional base building strategy. But instead of creating all new art for it just use all the existing Myth units, buildings, animations etc.

Well this would be a lot of work but if the engine could place a 3d model in game, and resources could be defined on the color map that would be the hardest part. The interface could use a simple numbering system like: select builder, hit the B key (for build) and the list comes up: 1. Farm 2. Barracks 3. Archery Range 4. Market 5. The Keep

So keep the list of buildings simple, but you trade gold at the keep to tech upgrade for more units. Say the Barracks starts out with Brigands then unlocks Warriors, followed by Berzerks. Or if the mod was made it so it's light vs dark then it's Thralls, Mauls, Myrks.

Ok well I think it would be pretty interesting the possibilities, would take a lot of tweaking to get it right but imagine running a pack of Myrks into the enemies peasant wood gatherers and decimating them mercilessly, lol

[Melekor]

I think that'd be a pretty awesome and fun combination. A real RTS version of Myth. I had the same idea myself many years ago. I don't think there'd be a lot of support for this in the existing community though, as many have expressed that they like Myth exactly because it lacks the economic component.

[punkUser]

... as many have expressed that they like Myth exactly because it lacks the economic component.

That's certainly me Still, having optional features like that for mapmaking or similar wouldn't hurt me or anyone else.

[Myrd]

Some people have done similar things, but via units and projectile -> unit promotions (instead of models).

Your barracks, town hall or whatever is just a unit that has different artifacts where the attack spawns a unit (via proj -> unit promotion). For resources, you can make maps where you can attack scenery (via monsters - like the stakes on Salvation) and when the scenery is destroyed, your units could pick up the resources it drops.

Transferring the resources to your town hall or whatever would need some scripting, though - similar to e.g. the scripting on e.g. The Summoner or Beyond the Cloudspine with the dwarfs moving crystals or repairing the knot.)

Building buildings would again be done via proj -> monster promotion.

So all in all, most of the components are there already in the current engine to make this possible - except you wouldn't be able to use real models and a little bit of scripting is required.

[vinylrake]

I think that'd be a pretty awesome and fun combination. A real RTS version of Myth...

i would quibble over your categorizing a resource building myth as a 'Real Real-time-strategy' version of Myth. Myth already IS a real-time strategy game because ALL the strategy (other than unit trading which is optional) occurs in real-time. Games like Age of Empires and other strategy games that rely on resource building and long term planning are NOT 'real time strategy' games at all because games can be won or lost simply based on who made the best decision 57 'turns' ago, the real-time strategy is often completely superfluous, you built x-wing fighters while i was working on building up my cavalry - guess who wins when we meet for battle? when bungie made myth they made a huge list of things that were awesome in different wargames and tried to include JUST the awesome parts... notice the distinct lack of resource building / long range planning in myth? it's not there for a reason, because it's NOT awesome. there must be 100 other turn-based-resource-building games out there, why try to turn myth into another one of them?

but hey, not to be a hater, if abyone DOES create a non-real-time strategy resource building map/campaign for Myth could your next project be to convert Myth to play a pac-man like game? I've really been missing pac-man lately and I am really used to playing myth so combining the two would be really awesome i think.

[MindBrain]

I don't think Myth is so great because it doesn't have an economy or building. I think Myth is great for the organic engine, the physics, the color maps, the balanced units, the orbiting camera. I think adding the ability for an economy and placing buildings is just extending the engine, it's not replacing or meant to replace Myth as it is. Adding an economy system would be a neat way to give more strategic possibilities. Although if adding anything like this would break the stability of the engine as it is now, I would just forget it.

And I don't understand why you would cross Myth with Pac-man as the two are nothing alike. However Myth is in the same category as other strategy games (you know, you get units, you select the units, you move the units over here, you tell the units to attack, etc

[Zaknafein]

you can simulate resource building with scripting, its not necessary to spend precious programming time on that

[Melekor]

VR, you seem to be using your own personal definition of 'RTS'. Check out these Wikipedia links for the mainstream definitions:

RTS: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real-time_strategy
RTT: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real-time_tactics

Myth is an RTT. It's an important distinction.

A negative reaction to the idea from die-hard RTTers is completely expected, and that's what the second part of my last post was about. From the perspective of RTS fans though, this would be an excellent idea - that's all I'm trying to say really.

[Jon God]

Woah I was having an extra crazy idea. There's nothing more radical than this. What if the Myth engine was tweaked to allow a basic economy and building system. Have the resources: wood, water, food, rock, metal, gold, Could be defined by an extra map (like how the height maps work)

Buildings could use the existing 3d models, limited to being placed on ground not too steep, with a foundation that extends below the surface, to blend in. Maybe rotatable in 8 directions.

Wow imagine that Myths perfect tactical game-play merged with traditional base building strategy. But instead of creating all new art for it just use all the existing Myth units, buildings, animations etc.

Well this would be a lot of work but if the engine could place a 3d model in game, and resources could be defined on the color map that would be the hardest part. The interface could use a simple numbering system like: select builder, hit the B key (for build) and the list comes up: 1. Farm 2. Barracks 3. Archery Range 4. Market 5. The Keep

So keep the list of buildings simple, but you trade gold at the keep to tech upgrade for more units. Say the Barracks starts out with Brigands then unlocks Warriors, followed by Berzerks. Or if the mod was made it so it's light vs dark then it's Thralls, Mauls, Myrks.

Ok well I think it would be pretty interesting the possibilities, would take a lot of tweaking to get it right but imagine running a pack of Myrks into the enemies peasant wood gatherers and decimating them mercilessly, lol

If this was easier to do, I would have done something like that already. That would have some really cool applications if it existed in a way easier to use. (Can we get more action buttons for myth besides T, U, and I?)

[vinylrake]

VR, you seem to be using your own personal definition of 'RTS'.

wikipedia is not the definitive source of anything. it's stupid to call games where you collect resources and use them to build up structures/weapons systems/forts/etc 'real-time strategy' games, they are 'long-term strategy games'.

but we are talking REAL-TIME 'strategy', so WHEN someone can explain to me how there is any REALTIME strategy involved during a battle between 21st century fighter jets and cavemen (because one player made better resource allocation/building decisions 45 minutes previously) THEN i will be happy to call those kind of games "real time" strategy games - but until then? sorry, sorry but wikipedia and 'the mainstream' is wrong.

[Melekor]

Uh huh, ok VR. I'm not going to argue meanings of words with you, or the merits of Wikipedia for that matter. Just be aware that you aren't using standard definitions and don't be surprised when this results in difficulty communicating with other people.

[carlinho]

I just think myth differs to every other game possible out there, because......

of it's community, where some idea comes in and suddenly everyone is trashing it and fighting each other....hahaha it just cracks me up , haha
really, before I used to get sad about it...but it kind of is like asterix and obelix....the gauls that won't surrender to civilization or colonization and always fight each other....
hehehehe

as Melekor pointed out in another thread, check OAD if you are interested in a free game with that...it's pretty cool
http://wildfiregames.com/0ad/

[iron]

Hehe, Mel would like to add capabilities to Myth to allow it to play like 0AD. OTOH I'd like to see a game like 0AD turned into something like Myth

[Point]

I included elements in both the CWR civil war reloaded and WAVA so map makers could do some RTS style maps...

CWR things like construction wagons that can build artillery and units

WAVA barracks, construction jeeps, halftracks, tank factories, airfields to create air attacks.. etc.. easy adds for a ambitious mapmaker...

I like real time strategy games in operation flashpoint where you control areas to gain abilities rather than mining rock or growing wheat... so myth rts to me would be more like capturing key strategic map areas and being able to use those areas to grow your forces... the thing is though I play myth cuz i can jump in a game and be in the fight in a minute or so... no basket weaving needed to get some action. the huge amount of time some rts games take in prep work is just not in my gaming budget.

[MindBrain]

I like real time strategy games in operation flashpoint where you control areas to gain abilities rather than mining rock or growing wheat... so myth rts to me would be more like capturing key strategic map areas and being able to use those areas to grow your forces... the thing is though I play myth cuz i can jump in a game and be in the fight in a minute or so... no basket weaving needed to get some action. the huge amount of time some rts games take in prep work is just not in my gaming budget.

Yea that sounds like a neat idea too. I like the idea of building bases in Myth though because the Myth engine is unlike all the other RTS games in that the maps are natural and "organic", Not like Starcraft or Warcraft where everything is based on squares. As far as the games taking a little longer....well that hasn't stopped people from playing Mazz...