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http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/Fallen_Lunatic

Clearly this is a violation of intellectual property

haha!

nice looking unit. Imagine a bunch of them rushing you from all sides on Gonens Bridge.

Someone call Take2!

Could they be any more obvious? On the other hand, are we sure Bungie invented the idea in the first place?

Not to mention the "Boomers" in Left 4 Dead. People just love to steal the idea of a big bloated fattie that stabs himself and explodes.

Any D&D nerds out there that could tell us if the "Wight" idea is from TSR or some other older then myth TFL franchise?

wights in D&D (at least in the first few versions) weren't fat walking undead and didn't explode

think they were from Tolkien - undead creatures that ate flesh or something think they paralyzed or drained the life out of anyone they touched? (memory is foggy)

*** update: looked it up - D&D wights were inspired by Tolkien's "Barrow Wights" which were in turn based on earlier works dating back to at least late 1800's. Tolkien's wights were spirits of the dead similar to wraiths - nothing like Myth's wights.

Vindicator wrote:Not to mention the "Boomers" in Left 4 Dead. People just love to steal the idea of a big bloated fattie that stabs himself and explodes.

Any D&D nerds out there that could tell us if the "Wight" idea is from TSR or some other older then myth TFL franchise?

- Well-minded by Bro Vindicator!

The ("Boomers" in Left 4 Dead) See a image of that fatso...This big Fat does not use the dagger.

Considering that probably 40%+ of everything in the Bungie universe (characters, stories, visual elements, ideas) was "borrowed" and/or modified from other sources (movies, TV shows, novels, short stories, arcade-era video games, etc.), they'd hardly have ground to stand upon in calling the Diablo guys to the carpet.

Nor do I think Bungie would ever complain about the Diablo guys.

Understand that I have a great deal of respect for the Bungie guys, and dearly love their work. They're "A1" in my book. However, they are and have been massive borrowers. Big time. The examples are far, far too numerous to dig into.

Understand that "borrowing" is very, very different from "stealing". Bungie are not thieves, at all. The stuff they've "added" to their world from other multitudinous sources has been modified just barely enough to squeak-by any possible claim of outright theft, and in fact the spirit in which Bungie operates in this "borrowing" regard is very positive.

Let's just call Bungie "The Masters of Homage," as they are like a dude who's running a D&D campaign and "integrates" cool ideas from his favorite movies and books into whatever campaign he's running. Bungie has done this almost as a rule, from day one. Thus, the Diablo guys are merely walking the same ground.

It would be cool to see some of the original Bungie guys in a modern (2012) interview. If asked or pressed about some of the more specific "borrowing" elements, it would be interesting to note their response, i.e., whether they'd discuss their inspirations and use of extensive "homage," or whether they'd categorically deny this "borrowing".

One wonders. I'm guessing the former, however, as they seem like great guys who've learned a healthy sense of humility and who've handled their awesome successes very well, indeed.

By the way, allow me to add to this that you cannot copyright or protect mere ideas and concepts (nor titles, for that matter)...only specific designs, characters, and so on. Also, the idea of an exploding bad guy is archetypical.

Having said the above, if Bungie pressed (and they wouldn't), in a court of law it might indeed be found that Diablo's creature is too close in concept, look, and execution to the Bungie "Wight" (not sure how Bungie even arrived as the name "Wight," considering it has no relation to the ancient historical reckoning of the name).

The legal result? If *anything* at all, on the extreme end, probably no more than a "cease and desist" order on future releases, or on the lesser end, maybe a requirement that future packaging include a "Thank You" to Bungie in some agreed-upon form.

Note also that I do understand that Bungie no longer has legal claim to the "Myth" universe, making the above theoreticals as moot as they can possibly be.

Which, elliptically, was the intention of the post to begin with.

It's harder than one might think to come up with a completely original idea about anything, really. As a writer, I often come up with an idea that I think is really cool, only to find later that someone else has already used it. Sometimes the resemblance is vague, but sometimes it's uncannily near-identical. It's a real bummer. For instance, when I submitted a book I wrote to a contest all the the reviewers were going, "Oh, you stole this idea right off this movie, why don't you come up with your own ideas?" And I was thinking, "Movie? What movie?" So I looked it up and, sure enough, the plot in the first chapter of my book bore a disturbingly strong resemblance to the movie. But I'd never seen it. In fact, I'd actually written the book before the movie was made. It was annoying to be accused of stealing ideas when I actually had no idea about it.

Khadrelt wrote:As a writer, I often come up with an idea that I think is really cool, only to find later that someone else has already used it.

So very true. I was just saying the other day, "There's nothing new under the sun." Wait...that kind of has a ring to it.

Having some knowledge of this dilemma (and having been on the wrong side at least once), it's true that many archetypical concepts float through genetic memory. It's expected that these archetypes (and, as follows, cliches) will appear in our work from time to time.

Also, we sometimes see something we like, and it registers subconsciously. Then one day we go about doing some work and suddenly we get this "cool idea out of nowhere"...except that it's *not* from nowhere, it's from a buried memory register of another person's work!

Hate when that happens!

Not to mention the fact that there's really nothing that hasn't already been done, in some way or another. We must merely strive to reassemble things in a way nobody thought to do before. Very, very hard. However, it's a code I live by.

And then there are times when we just grab something that was already around in a more-or-less original form factor (e.g., Giger's "alien"), use it in a *slightly* modified aspect, and then call it "Homage". Nothing wrong with that, especially when used effectively and respectfully.

There is a man in Hollywood who has made a nice living from borrowing the concepts, styles, and elements of others. His mastery is in the way he re-assembles these elements. Actually, it's beyond "mastery": The guy is a *genius*. And, he'll be the first one to tell you he completely borrows shit wholesale, from *everyone*.

That man is Quentin Tarantino.

I kind of see Bungie as the Tarantino of the video game biz. What they've created from their genius mish-mash of pre-existing work is a beautiful thing, indeed...just like QT has done with his movies.

Love that!

By the way, Khadrelt: Didn't you make a Mermaid unit back in the days? Was that you?

Yes, I did make a mermaid unit a long time ago. It was one of my very few feeble attempts at an original unit.

The Mermaid from the Havre River solo mapset!

That was a really fun mini-campaign, and I liked the mermaid unit, and the other unusual units too (skrael and the electro-Robots). The Mermaids were pretty annoying - because they were effective at killing me, not because of any fault in their design.

I actually hadn't known my mermaids had been used anywhere until I played that plugin not too long ago (or if I had known before, I had completely forgotten). I thought it was pretty cool. I never actually made a map with them myself, so I'm glad someone put them to use.

I am suprised they didn't check with you first - but at least they credited you prominently in the readme.

Well, in my readmes I usually said people didn't need to ask me for permission if they wanted to use something of mine.